Fractional vs Consultant: What Actually Changes, With Karen Brieger

00:00 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
I am excited to bring on Karen, who has been an advisor to us for the last year and has gone from CHRO into fractional people leadership roles. We have a lot of people thinking about and evaluating going from in-house to fractional, how to do that effectively, and the type of projects companies usually need help with. Karen is incredibly thoughtful, both in thinking about workforce planning with me, how to do org design, how to think about compensation, and how to think strategically rather than just tactically. That is what CEOs and founders often want from their people leaders. Karen has insights not just in tech, but in healthcare, tech adjacent, and manufacturing.

02:14 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
I fell into HR. I never started off thinking this was the career I wanted, didn't even know what it was back then. I won't date myself, but it was a long time ago. I started doing recruitment with a staffing agency and I loved that piece of it. I'm a naturally nosy person, and recruiting and HR allow me to professionally be nosy, because I'm always trying to learn about people and about the business and how those two come together. So it was pretty natural to stay in HR once I found it. I've been in professional services, manufacturing, including regulated industry manufacturing with med device, and spent about 10 years with a highly acquisitive SaaS company, which was great for M and A integration experience. One thing that really formed my thinking: we had a day one integration approach at that company. As hard and challenging as it was to integrate anything and everything, data centers you can't integrate day one, but everything people related we did. I learned so much about the employee experience, the value of it, connecting that with the customer experience, and all driving together for business results. In January of 2024 I started my business, Pinnacle Connections HR, as a fractional chief people officer. Almost a year and a half later I've got clients I've been working with long term, and I'm loving it.

05:14 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
Going from other industries into recruiting into HR, and the M and A work, that's very painful. Different people, different processes, different cultures. If you can bring those together you can solve most problems. And with regulated med device, a lot of the people work you've done has naturally tied business goals, outcomes, and sometimes regulations, all to people. As you've done this for a year and a half now, for people who are at the cusp of it, how has it been? Any insights for people thinking about staying in house versus fractional?

06:47 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
Being a strategic HR professional is only a piece of what it takes to be successful. Where I've seen a lot of people try fractional work and then go back in house, it's that they loved the work they were doing. What they didn't enjoy was finding the work, the business development piece. To me, I love that. I have so many amazing conversations with founders and CEOs, and that natural curiosity kicks in. I can't help but ask questions, and then it's, oh my gosh, it's great you brought that up, here's how I've experienced that, here's how I can help. It happens naturally for me, but that's not natural for everybody, and that's one of the biggest considerations somebody has to make before they take the leap. I didn't just jump in with two feet. I spent a lot of time talking to people doing fractional work, as well as people who are utilizing fractionals, to get a better understanding. But I decided I needed to go all in and commit, and some people aren't ready or able to do that for various reasons.

08:43 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
Moving quicker. When you come into a new company in house there's an onboarding period where it's understood you're learning. You have the ability to take the time to get to know people and processes. With fractional you have to do all of those same things. You can't come in like a bull in a china shop, you still have to learn the organization and the people and the personalities, but you have to do it so much quicker. I often feel like I've come into a movie in the middle and I have to quickly figure out the players and the plot, because nobody's going to rewind and let me go back.

10:10 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
When you're bringing somebody on fractionally, you're paying for outcomes. You're not paying somebody to sit in meetings and do the administrative work. The emails are always going to be there no matter what. So it's important to deliver on that quickly, and it starts with setting expectations. Spending that time upfront, talking about what do you need, what do you think you need, auditing, assessing, and then being able to deliver. But that means being clear not just on what the expectations are, but how we're going to work together. In the fractional role it's really about making sure the boundaries are clear. I'm not an employee. When somebody texts me at 10 o'clock at night I'm not going to respond, because honestly I'm in bed by 10 o'clock. They're different expectations, but I need to be clear with you in setting those, how we're going to work together, not just what we're going to work on.

11:42 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
My first fractional client is a company I'm still with. They were literally building from the ground up. They were constructing a building while also putting together the infrastructure of a company, the processes, the systems, the structure. That was really interesting, starting from nothing and creating it, and having the ability to truly see the impact of the work we've done together.

12:45 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
For me it's the same way I approached HR in house. It's not about policies and procedures. They're a framework, but you need flexibility, and you need to meet your client where they're at. I may think they need something big and beautiful, but that may not be where they're at, or where their budget is. I work with nonprofits as well, they don't have budget to spend on anything, they're doing what they're doing because of how they're giving back to others. So meeting them where they're at, and asking what they can afford, and how we make sure their employees are able to do the good work they do on whatever shoestring budget they have. I don't ever want to be the compliance police. I don't want to be the HR police talking to people about dress codes, which I've had to do many times. I'm there as a strategic advisor, putting a scalable framework in place, not getting mired down creating a policy to make sure somebody never shows up late for work.

14:22 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
Everything you said resonates for me as a software provider too. We have a product and it works a particular way, and we have hypotheses and best practices, but it's really about meeting the customer where they're at, understanding their needs and situations and dynamics. It could be budget, industry, regulation, geography, the people in seat. It's good to have frameworks and policies as a North Star, but you have to understand what the organization needs now and what it can handle. And it's iterative. You don't have to get to the perfect answer on day one. It's a living, breathing thing that evolves as the company grows.

15:35 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
When I'm working with a client on their technology needs, I'm trying to figure out what do you need today, but also where is the business going and what are they going to need tomorrow. And finding a technology partner that will scale with them. Is that technology partner scaling themselves? Because if they're stagnant, that's not going to support the client's growth.

17:12 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
There are a lot of founders and CEOs for whom consultant and fractional are the same thing. There is a difference. To me, a consultant is there for a project or on an interim basis. They're not a member of the team. When I come in as a fractional, I am a member of your leadership team. I'm at the table with the rest of the senior leadership team and we're working together to drive the growth of the business. The only difference is that I'm there on a part-time basis. You may not have me 40 hours a week, you probably have me closer to 20, depending on what we agree. But I am a member of the team. We work shoulder to shoulder on those decisions. I'm not there to just get the next gig or extend it another month. I'm there to drive the success of the business as a strategic partner to the CEO, the founder, and the rest of the leadership team.

19:38 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
Fractional leaders sometimes oversee employee teams. I'm working with one client where I oversee a team member who splits his time between HR and accounting. They're small enough that that makes sense right now. I'm guiding and coaching, and most of my time with that individual is spent coaching and mentoring and teaching so he can grow into the role. At some point they won't need me. But I'll know I've done a great job when we get to that point, because this individual has learned strategic HR.

20:50 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
I'm not bashing anybody who does consulting work, but that's another way to distinguish between fractional and consulting. As a fractional I'm there to help build the structure, make it sustainable, support growth, and also help build toward the point where an organization grows to where they need somebody full-time, or a team of people full-time. The intent is that I help get them to that point and transition. It's like sending your kids off. You look at what we built together and it's wonderful to see you at that stage now.

22:27 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
Sometimes founders or executives worry that once the fractional person steps away or spends less time, the bricks start falling down again. How do you make an organization self-sufficient rather than dependent on you over a longer horizon?

23:14 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
It's the foundational basics. The systems, the processes, the technology to support all of that, the documentation that goes with it. Putting a scalable process in place, whether on the talent acquisition side or the compensation side. That's the basic side of it. But then it's the team, making sure the individuals are in place and trained and ready to take the next step and lead it without me there. Back to the training wheels: they're on the big kid bike and they're able to go.

23:31 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
Building trust has been very similar to how I did it in house. It starts with making sure we're set on the scope and the intent, and that others are clear on that. Then it's having the one-on-ones to understand what's working today, where do you see your team going, what challenges do you anticipate, and offering guidance on how we can work together so we're ready for those obstacles. I spend one-on-one time with people and I communicate constantly, so people know what I'm working on and where things stand. Most of the work I do is remote, so I'm not bumping into somebody at the coffee maker. It's staying connected through the same tools the company uses, being on Slack, being available. You build trust with people you like and with people who deliver what and when they say they're going to deliver it. That's more important than ever in a fractional capacity.

25:36 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
I set KPIs very similarly to the way I did in house. I'm not working in isolation, I'm working in partnership with the rest of the organization. I need to understand what the company's goals and direction are, and then how the HR piece fits into that, always balancing the employee experience with the business goals. Everything we do should get us one step closer to the business goals. It depends on what stage the company is at. In some cases the KPIs are set around building initial frameworks. In others it's about getting to the next level. Sometimes it's about making sure the right team is in place, because the team that got you where you are today isn't always the team that will get you to the next level.

27:27 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
How do you say no or set boundaries? You're setting KPIs, maybe working one or two days a week, and other people come to you saying, Karen, we need help here and here and here. You want the customer successful and you'll flex where you can, but you can't take on all the projects.

28:39 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
I haven't found a way to say to a client, no, I only work one day a week for you. Just the nature of HR. If I were a chief revenue officer maybe I could say I'd dedicate Tuesdays and Thursdays to you, but with people, things come up. So I don't work that way with clients. It all comes down to setting a really clear scope of work. What are we trying to achieve and how are we going to achieve it? And part of that, which I've always done with my teams, is talking about availability. I may be sending you emails at 11 o'clock at night, but that's because that's when I work most effectively and catch up. It's not because I'm expecting you to respond. That's part of our upfront dialogue about how we're going to work together, what hours I'm available. I'm on the East Coast, you're on the West Coast, what's that going to look like. It's communicating expectations and not making assumptions.

29:49 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
Part of why I went into fractional was flexibility, being able to take a Friday off if I want, or go for a longer walk in the middle of the day. So it's making sure there's clear communication and expectations around roles and availability.

30:17 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
It comes down to meeting the client where they're at, understanding their stage, their appetite for technology, and their budget. I do an assessment to start with, to understand where they are on compliance, whether the basics are in place, whether people are getting paid as they should be. I have an assessment framework I use with clients on the people side, and then based on that I decide what's needed in a very customizable way. I don't have a one size fits all, because every company I've worked with has been vastly different.

32:01 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
You're doing an independent assessment because you've been at every scale of company, and sometimes founders don't know what they don't know, so they bring you in to see the unknown unknowns. But sometimes they have very specific immediate pain points they need help with. So it's triangulating across those and figuring out a game plan: what's now, what's next, and what's later.

32:35 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
A lot of it is priorities. The biggest pain points, and where we anticipate new pain points coming with growth, so we can be proactive. Some of it comes down to budget. If a client tells me we can only afford one thing, what's the biggest priority and the biggest bang for the buck. Configurability is big. I wouldn't want to introduce something that requires a lot of custom coding. We want it configurable because that supports their growth, and we want ease of use, because part of me transitioning out is that somebody else needs to jump into the system quickly. It needs to be intuitive enough that it doesn't require hours of training. Data is huge, and I'm not sure enough HR professionals talk about data, because it can be scary if it's not your strength. But to be a true business partner we have to make data-informed decisions. And then integrations. As an organization scales there will be other systems, not always HR systems, and the technology has to integrate with whatever else we're using today and tomorrow.

34:44 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
So when you're thinking about tools, beyond budget, you're thinking about how the tool works now and in the future. Integrations are key because it needs to plug into the other systems so it can scale, otherwise somebody has to take over a lot of manual work. The other thing I heard is the value of a tool that solves multiple problems rather than one. And customization, so long term the tool fits your process rather than you fitting your process to the tool. The data point is interesting too. It's not about checking a box, it's about providing analytics and insights and visibility to leadership and managers, because HR decisions are business decisions.

37:10 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
They're not career ladders anymore, they're more like spaghetti diagrams. It's giving flexibility to managers and employees to allow for growth in whatever way that looks like for the employee. To some people that's people management responsibilities, and other people don't want any part of it but still have so much value to add. So it's working with the company and understanding where it is culturally, because any career path needs to fit the organization culturally. I love putting plans in place that have cross-functional experiences, because the best professionals are the ones who, if I'm in HR, spend time with the engineering team, with finance and accounting. Everything I do is connected to every other group in the company, and understanding the challenges they face makes me a better HR professional and a better strategic partner. But not all organizations are culturally open and ready for that.

39:09 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
Millennials and Gen Z don't think about their relationship with work the same way. They don't think about careers as a ladder, more as a carousel. They want to go from IC to manager, or from one function to another. They want to flex and grow as their interests change. So internal mobility matters. A career ladder is not the only path to retention. It's creating the right opportunities that interest people at that point in time.

39:55 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
And we have to reframe what retention means and what good retention is. People aren't staying at companies for 10 years. They're not even staying for five. So having a career path that says you need five years of this experience in order to move on doesn't work. Somebody entering the workforce isn't going to stick around for a plan like that.

41:14 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
With the client we built from the ground up, the business is open and doing well. We went from zero to 50 employees with a lot of moving parts and different functional groups. Systems are in place. In every conversation I had with every division director, they were focused on the one tiny thing in front of them rather than setting up a structure. Even down to job titles. Let's not create a system where there are 78 different job titles that are all the same thing across multiple departments. We're not building it for one department, we're building it for the company. Helping them lift up to see that, and seeing it operating today, has been really fun.

43:00 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
You generally would be better suited to bring somebody on before you think you need to. I get asked all the time, when is the right time, and I always say it's never too soon to start. It's better to build something well from the beginning than to go back and fix it. Being proactive with all things people is always better than being reactive once you have a retention problem or a compliance problem. It's a lot more fun for everybody to do it early and do it well. And ultimately it's people. Compliance is a piece of it and policy is a piece of it, but it's people who create exceptional product, people who give amazing client experiences, people who make sure the money is collected and the invoicing is done properly. So we need to hire well, train well, and give great experiences, because those people then do the same for the business.

45:13 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
For founders thinking of bringing on a fractional, it's a great way to fill a need strategically at a fraction of the cost and still have a great partner. I am most successful when you're successful and we're partnering well together. Bringing in strategic leadership at a fraction of the cost, whether it's HR or any other leadership position, is a great option rather than delaying filling a need because you can't afford the full-time resource. For those looking to get into fractional, talk to people, really learn informationally what it's like from a number of different people. Everybody has different experiences, and it may be right or it may not be, depending on what somebody's personal and professional goals are.

46:24 Haris Ikram, CandorIQ
Let me recap some of the nuggets. One is the difference between a consultant and a fractional. A fractional is an embedded member of the team on an ongoing basis, rather than time bound or project bound. Fractional people are successful the same way full-time CHROs are: they come in, have impact quickly, build relationships the right way, and drive results and KPIs, data driven and business driven, as well as managing the people function. In stepping into the journey you talked to a lot of people first, to figure out whether it was even the right thing for you. Once you've decided, then it's how you position yourself, what your wedge is, what kinds of projects you want, because part of the goal of being a fractional leader is picking the companies and projects you're interested in. And once you're in it, you change mindset. You have to think about business development. You're the HR person, but you also have to run the business of bringing in new clients, driving their success, and measuring it. On tools and frameworks, my macro take is that yes, you should do an assessment, but meet your clients where they're at. There's no one fixed right answer, and you can iterate your way into a more ideal state, because every customer is at a different stage.

49:42 Karen Brieger, Pinnacle Connections HR
Thank you. This was so much fun. Great conversation.